Australian Shepherds

[4CrazyCanines]

Compare this (http://www.maximumaussies.com/) to this (http://toyminiaussies.com/). That's the discrepancy I was trying to discuss and that's why registries/breeders/proponents of the original, working Australian Shepherd have been and will likely continue to be opposed to them. Personally, I admire the dogs on the first site but the ones on the second ...

[agcranfill]

Oh I totally agree with you. The second made me cringe. I think that we may be more on the same page than I originally thought. Breeding tiny Aussies with the purpose of removing their unique characteristics and to admire how tiny they are is a bad bad thing.

And I respect the and admire the hard working people who raise and herd livestock with vivacious driven Aussies of all sizes. And I would never say a word to them about not minding a less driven strain of Aussie. It would be like me saying to a professional golfer, "Hey, this is cool and all, but isn't putt putt totally better?" (Pretty proud of that analogy I just thought of).

[kian]

And I would never say a word to them about not minding a less driven strain of Aussie. It would be like me saying to a professional golfer, "Hey, this is cool and all, but isn't putt putt totally better?" (Pretty proud of that analogy I just thought of).

That's good!


Aw we are all on the same page, I knew we would be! The first link I have research and OH has thought about getting a pup from them. The second one did make me cringe as well, that gives the opposition a reason to voice thier displeasure.
It seems we are in agreeance that the toys are too extreme. The second site is breeding for color and the appeal of blue eyes, that alone can water down the gene pool.

The majority of "minis" and "toys" that I have met have definitely been unathlethic, low drive dogs with questionable structures ... but with merle coats, trying to get the average idiot to go, "Oh, how pretty! I want it!"

That comes from poor breeders that don't have the breed standard for the good of the breed, just money again. Allie is most athletic, as they should be. I can't help but wonder how many "breeders" breed merle to merle, a horrible thing to do. I have a friend who acquired a mini from a friend who didn't know better. Her dog suffers from depth perception problem all because he was breeding for color.

[4CrazyCanines]

And I respect the and admire the hard working people who raise and herd livestock with vivacious driven Aussies of all sizes. And I would never say a word to them about not minding a less driven strain of Aussie. It would be like me saying to a professional golfer, "Hey, this is cool and all, but isn't putt putt totally better?" (Pretty proud of that analogy I just thought of).

Hehe that is pretty good. And another note, I'm not trying to say working-lines are superior to conformation-lines either. I personally enjoy Diesel's drive, biddability, herding traits, etc ... And that's why we sought out a breeder that produced solid working pups when we started searching Kylie. It's all personal preference!

The first link I have research and OH has thought about getting a pup from them. The second one did make me cringe as well, that gives the opposition a reason to voice thier displeasure.
It seems we are in agreeance that the toys are too extreme. The second site is breeding for color and the appeal of blue eyes, that alone can water down the gene pool.

The majority of "minis" and "toys" that I have met have definitely been unathlethic, low drive dogs with questionable structures ... but with merle coats, trying to get the average idiot to go, "Oh, how pretty! I want it!"

That comes from poor breeders that don't have the breed standard for the good of the breed, just money again. Allie is most athletic, as they should be. I can't help but wonder how many "breeders" breed merle to merle, a horrible thing to do. I have a friend who acquired a mini from a friend who didn't know better. Her dog suffers from depth perception problem all because he was breeding for color.

Kian --- I'm kind of in love with "Gracie" on their website. She reminds me alot of Diesel and you know how I love my bi-blues! Unfortunately I've only seen bad representations of minis/toys (well we all agree that any toy is bad ... what's the point?). I'm sure that Allie keeps up with Ice and the other big guys just as well But yes ... People will always be out there to make a quick buck, sadly. I too wonder about the merle to merle breedings. And of course there are cryptic merles as well, so you really have to wonder how many double merle breedings occur without the breeder even suspecting it.

[Deerie me]

That site said they were breeding teacup size as well ....OMG!

[Phyrie]

I can't really comment on Aussies per se, as I've never owned one, but I know a bit about purebred dogs. They have a standard, and common characteristics, which is what makes them their breed. When you take a dog that is bred for a specific purpose, especially a working group dog, and then proceed to breed out the characteristics that make that dog true to his breed (in this case, the herding instinct), you are breaking the standard, and no longer are breeding true to your standard. If you want a pretty dog with no herding instinct, there are other choices, but choosing an Aussie that has purposefully been bred to lack Aussie characteristics seems very wrong to me.

In my opinion, an Aussie breeder that has a dog with no working drive or herding instinct, and he then breeds that dog to another similar dog is NOT breeding Aussies. He's changing them, and I'm pretty sure the parent club would object strenuously to such a practice. As to breeding teacup anythings, I won't even comment, as the practice is abominable and irresponsible and anyone with half a mind knows that. I still shudder when I remember a childhood friend's mother's "teacup Chihuahuas" that she bred. Tiny things, no more than a few ounces each, with so many physical problems they were very short lived. But people continued to buy them because they were so "cute". Cute? How can an animal so small it must shake constantly to try to maintain it's body temperature, have such bad teeth it can never eat solid food, and such tiny abdominal spaces there isn't room for the internal organs to function properly, be considered "cute"?!

I understand the debate that is taking place here, and recognize both sides have validity, and my comments are not necessarily on topic. But, again in my opinion, once you purposefully breed against the standard, you are no longer breeding purebred anythings.

[agcranfill]

I totally agree with everything that is being said here. I'm glad this turned out constructive.

I do have one other question about things I have read on message boards. The statement that all Minis are mutts. I know that it is false, but is there any truth to that statement? Am I unaware of some seedy underground where outside breeds are being used to downsize Australian Shepherds? I mean, I truly truly doubt this, but they seem so confident!

If anyone knows of some sort of study that shows that ... I dunno... Minis generally have a genetic makeup that only 75% matches Aussies or something... please share.

Id hate to be so staunch in my opinion and then someone throw so stats in my face.

[kian]

No minis are not the mutts, sadly anyone can find stats and throw them out there. I did go back to the second site after Tracy mentioned the teacups and I took a better look. The toys and the teacups don't look like Aussies anymore, that I cannot agree with.
Why have a herding dog that is the size of a mouse? If the herding instinct is there that could be dangerous for such a small one, can you see a mouse herding a pitbull? Phyrie makes good points, don't breed out the characteristics that make them who they are, the breed standard.

I do understand both sides, however, I can see how the opposition is making thier points with breeders like that. Ignore people like that, the truth is, minis are not mutts at all. (the ones from responsible breeders). Heck, I met people this past weekend who truly believe in little green men. They too threw out stats and evidence....sorry not buying it.


Soon you have your little guy! I am excited for the pictures and you will quickly see, he is all Australian Shepherd!

.

[agcranfill]

Well it looks like I have brand new pictures of my now 5 week old little tyke.

If the weather is as crummy in your neck of the woods as it is in mine, I hope it serves as a pick-me-up! Enjoy!

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[kian]

What a cutie! He reminds me a lot of Allie at that age, except for the cute spotted nose. What a pick me up for anyday!!

[agcranfill]

Though I am loving the little spotted nose, I think he'll manage to still be cute when it finishes filling in!

He does look a lot like Allie, I do have to admit. Tri color, symmetrical blaze, full collar. Lets just hope my little bugger grows up as cute as yours! She looks like a sweet heart.

I don't know if you can tell, but my favorite picture is my last one. The munchkin is letting out a howl! I think he may be a feisty one!

[Deerie me]

What an adorable little bundle of fluff. Beautiful symmetrical markings.

[Phyrie]

What a cute little chubbster! He must have a very good mother to be so chubby. Either that, or he's a gobble guts! LOL! Adorable.

[Sadie G]

How adorable, and found his voice already, howling!! Congrats and I'm sure you can't wait unit he gets to come home with you!

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

What a lovely little fluff-meister! I bet you can hardly wait to bring him home.