PFT's thread; (video added 24/nov)

[Emma & Kay]

Wow, Paws. I'm glad nothing too bad happened. I don't know how you managed to stay quiet and brush it off. I have terrible problems keeping my thoughts to myself in that sort of situation. There's this man, who has a brindle mixed breed dog. It's always off the lead. It's totally illegal to have your dog unleashed roadside. His dog "came to say hi" when I had Jack. I asked the owner to keep the dog away, because "mines pretty iffy" but was told "he just wants to say hi". I attempted to keep the dog away from mine, while telling the man that it'd be a great idea to call his dog back now, but "he really likes dogs" and so I ended up looking bad. The owner didn't learn, either. I was in town with Kay, and the same dog came up to us, strutting along, hackles up. The dog had a go, and Kay, obviously, reacted to it. A community officer saw what happened and told the man to "restrain his dog". I haven't seen him around town in a while, but I doubt it'll be long before he comes back.

It's a shame when people with uncontrolled dogs won't take the proper precautions.

[pawsforthought]

Emma, the reason I can stay so calm is partly attributed to my naturally laid back attitude, but also, I'm too polite and hate hurting people's feelings, though I get REALLY angry when somebody's dog hurts mine.

I'm also just so used to it. As a pup, Monty had his lip bitten through by a collie, and was attacked on numerous occasions. Recently, a staffie whose owner was like a spec in the distance, came bounding up, and attacked Monty in the most vicious way I have seen a dog fight take place in person before, then proceeded onto Woody, who at the time was completely submissive with dogs and he simply laid on his back while this dog latched onto his throat. Woods was attacked another time, by a Labrador owned by an elderly woman who was using sticks to walk. He was young, strong, off lead, and aggressive, and pinned Woody to the ground before grabbing his neck and shaking his head. Again Woods just laid there and I had to kick the dog off to get him away.

But the most dangerous situation, in my opinion, was before we had Woody, and this Labrador, owned by a woman that had a reputation for just letting him run off and cause havoc, came bounding up to us. We were, at the time, talking to a bunch of friends, one guy who owned a beautiful white Alsation named Indy, and our friends who own a black labrador, Banjo, a big softie, and Monty's best friend. This other lab LOVES humping Banjo for some reason, and he always head straight for him when he spots him. While he's mounting Banjo, he growls and snarls, and this one particular time the owner was miles off chatting to friends, and as her dog was snarling at Banjo, Monty started to get uncomfortable wanting to protect Banjo. The owner came over SLOWLY and pulled her dog away, and we carried on chatting. But about 5 minutes later, there he was again, and this time his owner was NOWHERE. He mounted Banjo, snarling, and Monty started to lunge (LUCKILY he was on the lead) and try to get at the dog. At this point Indy the Alsation started to bark and attempt to get at the labrador, and Banjo then started trying to turn and attack. It was on the very brink of turning into a dog fight with four big dogs. Before this happened, Banjo's owner grabbed the dog, who attempted then to bite her face as he jumped up, but she pulled him along and FINALLY, after leashing him and waiting for a while, his owner came ambling up.

So I'm pretty used to things :/

This was like you say, DixieDoodle, in an off-leash area. But that doesn't mean dogs should be allowed to cause chaos!

[Emma & Kay]

Wow. And I thought the well behaved dogs around here were few and far between.

In the "substitute dog park", they've stopped dogs being allowed off lead, and are thinking about adding a "controlled walking" policy. If your dog isn't under control, your dog isn't allowed off lead. At the moment, nothing's decided, but I'm pretty sure all dog owners and walkers are rooting for the CW policy.

I won't even pretend Kayenne, Tippi or Star are the best behaved dogs ever, but you know your dog and should know when to leash them, take them away or go and get them. You shouldn't need to be asked by another owner to get your dog under control.

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Gaby, I don't know if I'd be inclined to walk my dogs, off leash or otherwise, in the areas you described! One attack maybe, but after two I would change my tack.

You are too nice sometimes and should give them a piece of your mind; if not for yourself, for the dogs' sake as they can't speak. There are always polite ways to let someone know when they are way out of line. Those events are horrific, and there are too many of them.

Poor Monts and Woods! They are such lovely dogs, and I know they are both living "full lives" thanks to growing up with 3 siblings and two wonderful parents. Let's not forget the Grands!

More people need to be responsible for their dog's behaviour. Emma, I think a C&W protocol would be great, if it can be enforced and agreed upon. Two different people may have entirely ideas of what is "under control" and what is not. There is one in every crowd.

[Emma & Kay]

[DixieDoodle]

I'm just too hot headed, but I have learned to control my temper in certain situations.

My boyfriend is bad with constantly wanting Dixie off leash. Her recall is not the greatest, I'd say 95% of the time she comes back right away but in situations when I want her back, she does not listen. For that reason I don't like her off leash in high activity places. You will even see us bickering back and forth whether to let her off or not. Most times I win

I agree that a controlled walking would be great to have but enforcing would be a big issue, and I know in my province it would be an even bigger issue because we lack in that area in everything. They enforce the by-laws on the large dogs but slack on the little dogs and I don't mean it like a little-big dog debate because I love all dogs. It just drives me nuts when I see a large dog owner getting a fine for not having a license tag and while getting it's $300 ticket, a small dog will walk by off leash in an on leash section.. Enforce all rules for all dogs lol! I understand that big dogs can do more damage but I feel that it is unfair to only ticket a certain group and not the rest.

[Emma & Kay]

There's been a "mass hire" of dog wardens around here recently. Three more have been hired since the start of the year, and mainly patrol around the "substitute dog park". A couple of years ago, a ranger for the park told somebody, who's Spaniel (mix?) was chasing the ducks to leave the park, because there's a strict "Don't feed, don't scare, don't steal our ducks" rule. I've seen a dog warden call someone on letting their dog knock a little kid down, as well. I'm not sure how far that was taken, but the owner didn't look very happy.

Little dogs are treated the same as big dogs here. Someone gasped and swooped their dog into their arms when they saw me walking around with Kay. We saw 'em again a few days later, and the same thing happened. Next time, I gasped, swooped down and picked Kay up. I swear the guy turned into a sun-ripened tomato. Big or little, dogs should be treated as dogs. Treating your dog like a itty bitty baby, unable to fend for itself, looks ridiculous, and most "Leightonians" (town we live in) know this.

I'm fairly certain there would be some "what controlled really is" guidelines posted around the park before the rule was set, but that's just going on what sort of thing the rangers usually do. They try to keep it lighthearted and friendly while saying "if you don't obey, you can't play" (actually the motto for the kids area, LOL) so it's pretty good...But while the "be leashed!" rule is up and running, I won't be going back to the park. I walk my dogs for exercise, and walking on a lead is hardly "exercise". I debated breaking out my 160ft rope and cheating the rules a bit..."Hey man, she IS leashed"...But figured they'd just set a leash-length requirement. We'll just have to go elsewhere for a while.

[pawsforthought]

Yeah, I know I'm too quiet sometimes. I mean, when I told my mum afterwards about the two staffies, she was glad I hadn't said anything as I was out on my own and she didn't want me to cause trouble for myself. My area is sort of reknowned for violence :/ recently an 11 year old girl was nearly abducted by an older man, but she had the good sense to walk quickly away. There've been numerous things like that, so I'm grateful my mum lets me walk there at all, and I don't want her to be pushed into not allowing me to do so (I may be 18, but an attack is an attack, rape is rape, whatever age you are, and she has to be careful)

The trouble is, the common is literally a GODSEND for us, it is one of the few spaces that is big enough that Monty can safely go off lead in deserted areas. I didn't let him off yesterday as there were a few people dotted around having barbecues (or Monty Grab n' Runs, as he likes to think of them ) but Woody has fantastic recall so he was fine. Yesterday, to avoid any problems like with the staffies, I took some cheese with me. And I was very successful in being able to get Woody away STRAIGHT AWAY from this dog who was growling and about to turn on him, before anything happened.

It's only going in and out of the common that I get the issues, so I'm going to stop letting Monts and Woods say hello to dogs at all when they're on the lead from now on. It's a shame, because it isn't really my fault, and most dogs they meet are really lovely, but it's sort of necessary to avoid the idiots.

My little dog attack rate may sound high, but you have to realise, that's actually quite a small number in comparison to the amount of dogs they meet every day, which is a lot because the park is so popular with dog owners. So the percentage of unfriendly dogs (or bad owners) is quite small.

Emma, in Camden Market in London, it was ok to take your dogs until a couple of years ago when we had Monty. He was young then, and we decided to take him to the market with us (because he loves meeting people and in situations like that, hustly-bustly, he's really well behaved) and after about an hour of us being in there a guy came up and told us that because someone was recently attacked, there was a new rule that if your dog was small enough to carry, it could be inside, otherwise dogs aren't allowed. So I promptly picked Monty up and the guard laughed. I don't know what breed it was that attacked the girl involved, but I think if you're going to ban dogs....ban them! There should be no grey area that segregates owners of big dogs from those of small ones. There's already often a rift between big and small dog owners, as you described in your scenario, Emma, and it doesn't need to get any bigger :/

[Emma & Kay]

Now that I think about it, the "aggressive little dog" percentage is pretty much the same. There are two West Highland White Terriers who I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, a Jack Russell, a little mix breed dog and a Whippet, or whippet mix, who are all pretty "put your hands up!"-ish. I just refuse to get too close. In every place I walk, there are multiple ways to get from A to B, so I've never had to walk passed a dog I know isn't controlled.

I'm always shocked when I hear things, like what happened to you with the Staffs. The owners must've known the dogs weren't controlled or dog/human friendly, yet they were roaming around, completely free to do whatever they pleased. How can you not know your dog? I'd have never dreamed of letting Jack off the lead without a muzzle or flourescent jacket. His usual walking gear was a nylon muzzle, basket muzzle, halti, car harness (so that it had a handle) and flourescent jacket so people could see him if he happened to get loose.

You don't need to go overboard to make sure nothing bad happens, although I, for one, would have more respect for owners if they had their aggressive dog on a muzzle. A lead would suffice.

I know that it isn't the dogs fault, but it's still the dog that isn't controlled.

I can't understand how people can carelessly let their under socialised, badly behaved, out of control dogs off the lead to do what they like. The owners don't even pretend to care.

[DixieDoodle]

It is a shame that it is only a small handful of dog owners who don't care what their dog does but it seems to be all dog owners that get the bad reputation.

[pawsforthought]

Totally agree with you on everything, Emma, owners have to take responsibility for their dogs, and if they're not willing to...well then I'm afraid to say they aren't fit to be a dog owner!

DixieDoodle, there was a thing in a newspaper here recently about *A* dog owner whose dog nipped a child. It was a terrier cross breed. The title for the article was 'dog ownerS in denial' because the man had said 'oh that's just how he says hello' or something stupid. But this is a classic example of how, as you said, ALL dog owners get the blame for one thing, and as miniscule a detail as the plural in that title may seem, it doesn't exactly boost public opinion in the favour of the dog owners, bad ones and good ones alike. Not only that, but despite the description of the dogs involved being 'terrier crosses,' the picture displaying an aggressive dog on the article was that of a Staffie (I know they're terriers, but not the same kind of terriers as the ones being described, which sounded to me like Airedale crosses) which again, is feeding a wrong assumption that a lot of people have, that staffies are typically aggressive dogs.

Anyway XD

[DixieDoodle]

Oh the media loves to shove staffies into anything they can! I like how we are in completely different countries but yet have similar issues regarding dogs and their owners. There has been a few articles out recently on how some people in Halifax, NS wants a breed ban for Staffies. It drives me nuts that the media will always say it was a Pitt Bull attack but when ever a different breed of dog attacks a person, that breed is never mentioned. The media can not even get its facts right, as half of the Pitt Bull attacks are not even Pitt Bulls, it is usually a mix bred dog with similar looks to one. Since Ontario put in place a breed ban Nova Scotia has been rescuing all of the dogs and now we have an over population problem starting. Too many dogs and not enough homes for them. I really dislike breed bans And it is funny that the statistics for dog bites has not gone down in any province that has a breed ban...

Calgary, Alberta has a really good dog by law and I think a lot of other Canadian cities including mine should follow their by-law. They want to raise the minimum fine from $200 to $1000 in Halifax, I am not against this but I am not sure if it will help with the irresponsible dog owners around here. I think a lot of unpaid fines will be the result from this.

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Gaby, when you are alone, walking the dogs, do you not have a mobile phone?

I always give Elliot my cell phone when he leaves the house so he can reach the authorities, and me, in an emergency. Even though you are 18 and he is 15, I still think you should always have that added protection, if possible. I thought just about every teen today a had "cell" or "mobile", and often feel guilty that I have to lend mine to Elliot.

I was amused at your picking up your dog to make a point. I couldn't agree with you more about have a grey area. Rules, if there are going to be any, need to be very specific. That way everyone is well informed prior to entry to the Park.

Profiling of any kind is similar to censorship, whether it be dogs or humans. It just happens to be unfortunate that so many of a particular "breed" (again, human or canine) end up in the wrong hands, with the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, and they wreck it for everyone else.

Look at Louise's "Saffy". A sweeter dog would be hard to find, and yet in North America certainly, there might be an issue in some communities as to her lineage. That's just not right.

Safety is important not only for the dogs, but for the humans as well, so be safe.

[kian]

Reading this there are some scary encounters with off leash dogs. When I run my dogs off leash, I choose a remote area and always have my leashes with me as a precaution.

I'm not a fan of breed profiling either, however, when encountering any dogs I'm cautious as I don't know what the owners have done with the dogs. I'm not shy when comes to protecting my dogs from idiots with non leashed dogs.

Gaby be vigilant when out and about, sounds like you don't live in the best area.

[pawsforthought]

I do own a mobile phone XD But truthfully it's never charged, let alone has credit on it. Usually I go walking with my brother who has his iPhone attached to him 24/7, but I agree when I walk without one it's not safe and I should borrow mum's. (I just forget sometimes)

I wish I could be better with expressing my thoughts to someone, I just hate saying things to people they won't like, which is really annoying sometimes as it means I allow myself to be walked all over

One thing I find that I automatically do when I feel intimidated is pull Woody in close and look at him as if he's trying to get to whoever it is....Lmao. I find when I do this, though, he STARES at the person I'm worried about, so maybe I'm not such a bad judge of character! (Or maybe he reads my signals really well)

I've just had a lovely walk today, though. My brother and I hopped on a train to the New Forest and walked for over 4 hours with the dogs. There are lots of clean streams along the way for the dogs to have a drink and a swim, so the heat didn't affect them XD It was lovely being able to have both dogs off lead for HOURS and not worry about what's around the corner.