Biting and Nipping

[lynners]

Do you just mean general solid training so that he listen's to me not matter what the situation we're in?

Yes. Sorry that I wasn't clear!

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Lynners, I love that avatar of Tassy! I don't even know if it's new, but it's the first time I've really noticed it. Giving out drink tickets no doubt!

Cassandra, when Boucane started to mouth your BF, he was asking for play...not reacting to something he was told not to do. Lynners is absolutely correct in saying that all of our dogs should learn to drop or leave whatever they have in one command, no matter what! That is a life saver, literally, especially for the dog.

I think you are not yet clear on the boundaries of play versus aggressive acting out in defiance. Some dogs love to hold their human's hand while walking, or keep nose nudging it. They aren't being aggressive. They are loving. It's a fine line.

I'm sure with Lynners help, and the others, you'll sort this. Boucane sounds like a lovely, friendly fellow who just needs to learn his limits. That also comes with age, and consistency.

It sounds like your BF certainly grabbed Boucane's attention.

[Cassandra86]

Nono, I know he wasn't being aggressive and that he just wanted to play. His mouthing (during play) and bites (when he doesn't want to do what he's told) feel and are very different. It's just that I don't want him putting his teeth on us (and any humans) for any reason.

Normally I don't mind when dogs gently use their mouths when they play, but I know not everyone does so when we have guests over I'd like it to be common practice for him not to use his mouth when he plays, since mostly because of his size, a lot of people are intimidated as soon as they see him.

My brother (who loves to play with Boucane) is also expecting his first baby in February so I want them to be able to feel free coming over with the baby. Its also a first for our family so it should be interesting and may require a new topic post for advice.

Anyway, if Drew's "No" wasn't too loud I think Boucane will get over using his teeth during play sooner rather than later.

I recently found out that I can use the camera's SD card to transfer pictures to my computer. So since I don't have to buy a wire, hopefully I'll at least have some pictures tonight.

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

I can understand that you don't wish your dog to put its mouth on anyone for any reason! However, as Boucane matures, I'm sure you'll find that he saves that special loving only for his special humans. Because he may wish to express affection to you or your husband with his mouth, does not necessarily translate into he will mouth all people.

I say this because as I expressed before, my Golden loved to put her mouth on my hand as a display of affection. She didn't do it with other people, and had an uncanny ability to know the difference between a baby, small child and an adult. I believe most dogs know this.

I also hope that no one ever allows their child to climb on the dog! I have seen photos, fairly recently, of a very large dog laying down, minding its own business, and a 1 year old child climbing on the dog to look out the window. I just shake my head when I see things like that. All the dog has to do is stand up and the child will go flying, and it would be the ADULT'S fault! The dog has every right to lay in peace and NOT be crawled all over. Secondly, the dog may end up becoming aggressive towards small children because no adult protects the dog from little ones who pull ears, poke eyes and pull fur and tails!

My children were forbidden from approaching the dogs if they were laying down, eating or resting. If any discipline was required, it was directed at the child, not the dog.

I mention this because the first Grandchild is about to enter your family's lives and I know from experience how protective everyone will be. Just remember that Boucane has rights as well, and try not to put any unreasonable expectations on the dog. By the time Boucane and the baby will interact, Boucane will be way more mature and probably be the baby's best friend and protector.

Lynners again is my "go to" person on this one, and I know she'll sort me.

I am also looking forward to seeing your pictures! They help a great deal, and it does sound like you are making progress.

[lynners]

I agree with absolutely everything you've said, Deb!!

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Thanks Lynners. To me, that is high praise indeed! You are far more knowledgeable about dogs and their behaviour than I ever will be. I just speak from experience. I am extremely flattered because I know you will sort me when required.

[Cassandra86]

Oh boy! Has it really been 3 weeks?? So sorry it's been so long. Here's the update so far:

Although not perfect yet, Boucane's playtime mouthing is really getting better. I'm quite happy about that.

He's still very nippy when we try to do something he doesn't feel he has to do. I'm still really having trouble with this one and I know it will need a video. I haven't been able to get one (or a picture) of this because it happens at random moments and if I got to grab the camera, the moment will end of course. But I have a plan for this weekend. With Drew's help, it will work.

We've been working on "let go" and "leave it" quite a bit. He's doing pretty well with "leave it" but he is having a bit of trouble with "let go".

I have complied two videos into one that I will attach. The first part is a bit of play time followed by a "let go"/"leave it" lesson. It was taken about two weeks ago so "leave it" has improved quite a bit since then. The second part it just some playtime in the backyard he had this past weekend. He loves that blue ball so much.

Hopefully the movie isn't too big. I'm really terrible with this stuff.

Deb ( I hope you don't mind if use your name), I agree with you 100% about creating firm boundaries for kids/babies when it comes to playing with and climbing all over dogs. It will be a slow introduction for sure. I want to be certain that everyone is as comfortable and at ease as possible when the two are in the same room.
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Ok, 20 minutes later the video file is way too big even for photobucket. I was going to try youtube but im not giving them my phone number for verification . I will see if Drew can reduce the size of the video. They really are pretty cute.

In the meantime, below is a picture, not of him biting or mouthing but of his sleeping as close to me as possible.

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

That is the most adorable picture I've seen in a long time!

You mentioned that if you walk away to grab the camera, the mouthing stops. You have literally answered your own dilemma in that one sentence!

I realize that drop it, or "let go" is sometimes more of a struggle than leave it. Believe it or not, my wee Oliver (one white eye) is absolutely relentless when he has something in his mouth that he shouldn't, or that we wish him to "let go"! Of all the dogs I've had, he is the hardest one to break when it comes to this. Henry, on the other hand, literally spits it out...good boy! Oliver clamps down with a death grip that is hitherto unknown for me.

With my larger breed dogs, I could easily pry open their mouths and take the offending object out, along with the command and a "time out" from any attention or whatever. With Oliver's wee mouth, it is nearly impossible as there is not enough "muzzle" on which to hold and insert my fingers at the back of this mouth, thereby forcing his mouth open. Not only that, but he has also been known to give a wee nip like response in defiance. He is much smarter than he looks.

Rest assured he has never bitten anyone, but his jaws clamp shut like a steel trap. I think Boucane is far less likely to be so resistant and being a baby, he will learn what it is you expect, much like Henry has.

We actually caught Oliver trying to pull a placement from the table with food on it...this past week! If you know Oliver's history, that is rather surprising as he has major health issues. While being admonished for trying to steal a plate of food, he gave a growly nip like response to my older son who is nearly 20. The admonishment was entirely verbal along with simply moving his body gently from it's location. "Bad dog, get down" type of thing.

Boucane is definitely not Oliver-esque and will learn to use his mouth gently, for loving purposes only. With everything I said about Oliver, he has never nipped anyone and would never because he knows I won't have it. Boucane is more like Henry and will do whatever you ask, eventually, simply to please. Be consistent and allow room for some mouthing as that is a form of loving, whether it's licking or "holding your hand".

I am looking forward to seeing some videos, but I think you are on the right track. I only use Oliver as an example as most people wouldn't believe a sweet, little Cavalier could behave that way....including myself!

[Cassandra86]

I hope everyone had a lovely Thanksgiving!

Here is a roughly 4 minute video of Boucane playing with his favorite indoor toy. He's so cute when he plays with it so I let the camera roll heheh. Eventually I try to take it from him by saying "drop it" by accident and then "let go" a couple times. Once he does that, I ask him to leave it..anyway.. you will see The quality was drastically reduced when we made it a smaller file so it's pretty dark.

You will see he tried to get my fingers when I went to take the toy away, which I don't want him to do.

Also, I now think I know what you mean, Deb, when you say they like to "hold your hand". Boucane has started to take my hand gently in his mouth when I get home from work. It's cute

Sorry it's a link, I think it's still too big to upload directly in the post.

http://s1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/cass157/

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

I just watched your video, and firstly I must say that Boucane is absolutely beautiful and adorable.

I noticed that you almost made a "game" out of trying to take the toy from him, with no command. You used your fingers like little "soldiers" approaching his toy to steal it. He is unable to tell the difference between a command, and play.

I think he is doing incredibly well, as you used the same sort of finger motion to try and entice him to take the toy back from you, again with no command, or praise for "dropping it" once you had it, as you were telling him to leave him. I believe this is very confusing to him.

May I suggest, and I am certainly not a trainer or behaviourist, that you give the command (with treat in hand, well hidden) to "drop it". Show him the treat and the second he drops the toy, give the treat with tons of praise and pick up the toy. I would then ask for a "sit". The moment he sits, reward him by giving back the toy.

As it appears right now, your hands are almost taunting, without using your words. He can't possibly know if you are playing or asking something of him. Be consistent, and practice! Always give the same command for what you want. In this case, you want him to "drop it". "Leave it" is entirely different as that might be something he encounters during a walk, or whatever, that you don't wish him to touch in the first place.

I would work hard on the "Drop it" command. Sometimes it helps to put them in a Sit first as they know the play is over and it's time for business.

He is truly adorable and I think a very willing learner. I love his fluffy paws.

[lynners]

Fantastic post, Deb!!!

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Thanks Lynners!

[kian]

He is beautiful!! I won't add much 2 cents as Deb and Lynners already have this under control, but I will comment on the video. Just as Deb said, you are confusing him. Your fingers are signaling to him a play/prey/protector which is confusing. Your fingers are playing with him, the object becomes prey you are after and now he has to protect it, make sense? You can get bit this way if he decides the object needs protecting.

While Deb covered this really well, this is my 2 cents on this. Start with a less valued item he has and find a treat he likes. Simply hold to his nose and as he drops the item to retrieve the treat, say "drop it". Work up to a more highly valued item, slowly!!!! Baby steps. When you get to the point of the trying this with the highly valued toy, start back holding the treat to his nose and say the command. He must be rewarded and not feel he needs to protect this item and he will get it back. The idea of "drop it", is if he actually gets something dangerous, he will feel okay to drop it, though he won't get that thing back.

"Leave it" is done and taught separately from "Drop it". Once he gets a solid "leave it" adding a toss and throw leave it, then you can "drop it" and "leave it". Hope that makes sense!

I also concur with Debs comments on Children and dogs. I have Grandchildren now and watch them with a Eagle Eye around my dogs. They are fantastic with kids, there can be trouble as children don't always know how to treat a dog. Just last week my 3 yr old Grandson nearly stomped on my little Aussie leg as she slept. Glad I had a Eagle Eye as I was able to intervene and prevent what could have been a disaster for him or my Allie. Yes introduce with that same Eye and watch, watch and yes watch!

[sly85]

Hello everyone. I've recently started having a problem with Maya biting me and need some advice. It started about 3 - 4 weeks ago, more or less. It usually happens when I'm sitting at the table, where she can't quite get to me. She starts jumping and hitting my arm to get my attention, and if I ignore her, she will eventually grab a mouthful of my shirt sleeve. Ignoring her doesn't work, since she's trying to get my attention to begin with. A stern "NO!" will deter her for about 5 - 10 seconds, and then she's at it again. I don't know what else to try. At this point, she not actually biting me, just my clothes, but that's still unacceptable. And if I don't get this to stop now, I'll end up with teeth marks on me come springtime.

Maya will be 2 in April, if that makes a difference.

[lynners]

I'm going to hazard a guess that Maya is bored!

How much exercise does she get a day? How much training time? Do you give her any mentally stimulating toys, like a tug-a-jug or a tricky treats ball?