Fila Brasileiro

[Dogman#1]

one more thing...caling those wannabe "new filas" that allow anyone to touch them a TRUE Fila Brasileiro is the same as saying "my english mastiff could be used as a war dog" or "My English Bulldog could be used for bull baiting"...NO! you dont! People like you guys took that away from those breeds and all you have now is a dog that cant make it down the block in the summer and that cant fight itself out of a wet paper bag.

[kian]

First Dogman your choice of a internet Avatar showing a tough guy speaks volumes to your attitude. I don't believe anyone here was saying to go against the genes, however we live in a different world from the time I was young. Dogs are becoming the weapon of choice and paying the price for it.

Our concern is for this breed falling into the wrong hands, yes can you believe there are actually irresponsible owners in this world? Purposeful breeding for aggression is wrong in any breed where a stranger can be injured is scary. We live in a world of gangs, drugs, wars where these dogs could be used for the very wrong reason. I volunteer teaching hardcore youth in prison how to train dogs. We recently had a discussion of mean tough dogs vs. a well trained socialized dog. They had the mentality of preferring a very mean dog, which I addressed and discussed. I can see gangs with these dogs, using them for a purpose not meant.

So can the aggression gene be bred out, that is the one thing I do agree with you, I don't think so. I have a educated knowledge of genetics. Would I like to see the aggression gene bred out, I won't lie, I would. Could I own one, yes I could, would I??? NO I would not, I have grandchildren and have nothing to prove by owning this breed.

Pits are not mean by nature, in the wrong hands, we know the results. BSL runs rampant with this breed and many more. I am advocate for the breed, if you want to be a advocate for the Fila, by all means do so, your rant isn't needed here. Teach, prevent the breed from getting into the wrong hands and educate. That is what we do here, educate.

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Dogman, I'm not sure anyone is suggesting that one attempt to breed a basic known trait out of any dog. Perhaps I am just not reading the posts as you are, but all I see is a discussion about the breed type, and how "Backyard Breeders" could make this relatively unknown Breed extremely dangerous.

I have to concur that if one wishes a more docile dog, then one should select a breed designed for that, and not attempt to take a dog that is bred to protect, at any and all costs, and try to change that.

It is alarming, and we should all be concerned, that for those who don't bother to do their research, and don't bother to learn and train their dogs properly, that this Breed could be potentially hazardous to any community, which would only be the fault of the humans.

Clearly you are passionate about this breed, and this section is here so that others can learn about different Breeds. Do you own a "Fila"? If so, perhaps you could post some photographs and talk a little about what you do know about the breed, personally as no one here, with the exception of one, actually owns one of these dogs.

Is that a photograph of you as your "profile picture"? Perhaps you are that "tough guy" to which Kian referred. Do you work with dogs? We all wish to learn, and perhaps you have things you could share of value. So far though, your approach is most off-putting.

[Nileska]

I seem to recall an incident in San Francisco where a couple who were keeping two Filas for a drug dealer allowed the dogs to attack and kill their neighbour in the hallway of their apartment building whie they looked on and laughed!!

I also wish too note that registrys you see as CKC in regards to breeds like this and also the 'desginer' breeds are NOT the Canadian Kennel Club...The continental kennel club is a registry mill which will register anything for a price...

As I understand it the above mentioned couple are now serving long prison terms.

[Dogman#1]

Kian, Very presumptuous of you to state that this avatar pic shows a "tough guy" image... again that is what you see but those in the Fila community see a completely different picture... What we see is a well bred Fila Brasileiro displaying its trademark (90 degree) angle of attack for which it is known for. If you notice the picture is a professional photograph taken by a noted (and well known) photographer of dogs that was actually flown in from the west coast just for this and other's pictures. ANY protection dog breed in the wrong hands is dangerous as is any weapon. This type of dog is not a "status symbol" and have not caught on in the tough guy field because they dont come close to looking like a tough or cool looking dog. They lack the chiseled muscular look of the APBT, they have long droopy ears, saggy skin and dopey look...who the hell would look "cool" walking one of these? IMO they are one of the doofiest looking dogs that have ever walked BUT when the time comes they do their job like no other. I am a U.S soldier and therefor am away from home (Alot) and needed a dog that would act on its instincts to protect my wife and 2 small children when/if the situation arouse. She has protected me several times over and IMO worth her weight in pure gold. The people that own these dogs should be aware of the potential liability of owning one and be responsible for the safety of the dog and the people around it. Would I ever walk this dog into a petsmart? NO!, would I let children pet her? NO! She was VERY well socialized as a pup to be more controllable but she could never be trusted with a stranger, but she can stand calmly by my side if I choose to have a conversation with you at a safe distance. lets take the beautiful APBT... a spectacular animal that should be known for its kindness to humans but one should always know of its inert prey drive and "gameness". I would never take a real apbt to a dog park nor would I ever expect a dog like that to comfortable or even safe with other dogs (I am talking about a real game bred apbt not the staff or bully). Does it mean that just because dog fighting is illegal (an obviously inhumane) that we should take the prey drive and gameness (willingness to continue at all costs) out of the breed? HELL NO! if you prefer a dog w/o that sort of drive then by all means get a diff. breed. There are other uses for a prey driven dog, many uses ie, sport, hunting, agility and trailing courses, weight pull, etc. which they will excel at. The fila has uses in today's world, and maybe you have to make some life changes in order to accommodate one but to change the breed from its original state just so it fits YOUR lifestyle is wrong which is WHY the APBT is so screwed up now with people breeding and training for people aggression. If I came out like J/O it is only because this has already been happening outside CAFIB and it is destroying the breed with fear biters and unstable messes.

[Dogman#1]

oliver&mum, yes, that is me with Arena da Serra de Itanhandu, 2010 CAFIB USA Champion, best female, best temperament of the show. A well bred CAFIB Fila Brasileiro is by far the most loyal breed you would ever know...I know everyone says that about their breed but trust me as I have has multiple breeds and there is nothing that comes remotely close to this dog's faithfulness. With its family it is the most docile breed I have ever known and it is the only breed that I would trust 100% fully with my children who can be somewhat obnoxious with dogs (no, i dont let them do that). to come to understand what this dog is to my family I will share a story with you. When Arena AKA "Maddy" was about a year old I received a phone call from a breeder in EU asking if I would sell her, I immediately turned her down. She had called several times and once she called when I was not home and made an offer to my wife for the amount of over 10,000USD (No, not joking). This was a huge amount and it was something that my wife considered because we are a military family and funds were low. so anyway my wife brought it up to me and my daughter was sitting with us and after "the pitch" my daughter looks at me and says, "Wait, you're going to sell my sister?". I looked at the wife and the conversation was over. These dogs are simply pure love and the bond is SO strong that it is unbreakable. For a dog with such a ferocious history they are insanely emotional with their family (annoyingly so ). you could never lay your hands on one with mal intent as it would seriously sit there and cry for hrs or even days as it looks at you even raising your voice sends them into the poorest excuse you have ever seen. they are not destructive even as pups. they are well mannered and pretty lethargic in the home but are ready to go if you decide to go for a run or for a good wrestling match with you or the kids, never being rough at all. These dogs are NON dog aggressive as they were bred to hunt, drive cattle and protect in packs. I show and breed filas on occasion and the pups have done very well at CAFIB shows in the U.S and in E.U.

[Dogman#1]

Nileska, first off that is how rumors get started, please research what you are talking about before saying stuff like that. The breed that you are referring to is the Presa Canario and the victim's last name was Whipple I believe. The dogs were owned by some guy who went to jail and were staying with a couple of white supremacists (truly responsible and educated folks,,,yea right.). there is a VERY big difference between a Fila and a presa... First off the presa canario is prey driven (like an apbt) and can be very dog agressive (depending on bloodlines) which makes them suitable for certain things that filas would not excel at..ie, schutzhund type sport.. Filas usually are horrible at this sort of thing because a fila usually has very little prey drive which is needed for a dog to excel at this sport... filas are not the type of dog that stray from their home and they do not stray from their owners either, they are not the type of dog that you can "send" out to go get the bad guy a football field away. They are instinctual guard dogs which means if they dont feel it is a threat then they wont do anything about it so a guy 100' away is no threat and therefor they will not leave your side to go get him. let me try to explain a bit more... e defense driven dog, like a fila needs a threat to be present (remember what may not be a threat in your eyes may be a threat in theirs) and they have to have something to protect, ie, you, their home or themselves. each dog has its own radius of comfortable distance, maddy's used to be around 25' and is now about 6-10' depending on the situation (if i was holding her having a low voiced conversation with you) but that was achieved with heavy socialization and obedience work. now, if she is tied to a tree by herself (which would never happen) you might be able to walk fairly close by to her w/o a reaction and as long as you dont antagonize her, ie, staring at her eyes, raising your voice, etc. this differs from a presa and those particular ones (they were trained attack dogs) because they react to quick movements (prey drive) and panic... meanwhile the fila would have been crying and scratching just trying to get back inside the damn house, saw the person, stared at them and if the person ran away they would not have pursued. now mind you if you have one of those non cafib ones with other breeds mixed in then you would not know what to expect.

[Dogman#1]

I just got these pictures from an owner of one of my pups in Belgium. in these pics he is 15mths old and is really starting to look good. I have high hopes for this boy and a really gorgeous coat on him, you can tell he is well cared for.

Here is an absolutely beautifuly laid out comprehensive look at the standard with pictures of real dogs to help anyone from beginner to expert really understand the standard. hit all the tabs and wait till each one loads, you will not be sorry.
http://www.cao-filabrasileiro.com/#!__i ... brasileiro

[Dogman#1]

Here is a video of Arena, AKA "Maddy". In this video you see what happens when a "green" (untrained) CAFIB Fila Brasileiro does when a threat presents itself... Guys this is a trained decoy/agitator please dont try this at home with your friend's dogs. BTW you will also notice OFA certificates for Hips, elbows and patellas...you know something all of us "tough guys" do to show off our cool tough dogs, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA-TpLrMBd8

[nezza]

All I can say is WOW! I know this is an old thread but holy cow, I couldnt help but post here. I have NEVER in my life heard supposed "dog" people talk about breeding against specific traits that are actually called for in a breed's standard... Yes, this is not a breed for everyone so if you dont want to or cant handle a specific breed with ALL of its specific traits then dont get one and by no means does that mean that you should breed specifically w/o some of the traits that YOU dont like so that it will fit your lifestyle...

Dogman, I completely agree with you. I never saw this thread until yesterday and i have really enjoyed reading it. You have a vast understanding of this breed and i have learned a lot from your postings.

To suggest that characteristic traits be bred OUT of a dog is UN-natural and completely absurd.

I enjoyed your video and the story of how your little girl did not want you to sell her "sister." That's very sweet. You deserve applause for having the knowledge of your dog and what she is capable of. Sounds to me like you are a very good dog owner who takes responsibility to understand your dog. I don't think that can be criticized.

[Dogman#1]

Thank you nezza. I have been in the breed for about 9 yrs now. I did alot of research before I got one, did much more afterwards and continue to research and learn. I have been to Brazil and learned alot there as well about the breed and got to see quite a large # of filas. I organized/hosted the 2012 CAFIB USA exposition in Pittsburgh which was the most successful expo yet in the USA and hopefully they continue to grow and become better as time goes on. CAFIB has recently been getting a strong foothold here in the U.S.A as it has in South America, EU,Asia and now even Africa. Hopefully, as information and education spreads we could finally put an end to the bastardization of the Fila Brasileiro breed by those who for the sake of $ and short cuts mix breed instead of preserving.

" I have to say given the facts, if it is possible to breed down the temperment and not compromise some of the finer qualities, then so be it."

This quote is what is wrong with the world today...I dont understand it so im scared of it, so Im going to destroy it so I feel more comfortable with it... How about " this is interesting, let me find out more about it, learn, get educated and then find a way to help preserve it in a responsible manner"?

[kian]

Okay I have done some research and put a trace on your avi, I did find it on the internet and it traced back to a Photographer site out of California. No one is arguing your passion for the breed, you have stumbled upon a "Puppy" Website where we are about non-aggression and more family friendly/neigbourhood dogs. There are forums for Filas/Mastiffs where you might enjoy chatting with other owners.

I show professionally as well, my breed of choice is in my Avi. The Blue Merle on his way to Two Titles, I'm very involved in the dog world and also a working Behaviourist. My main concern which I already stated, is this breed falling into the wrong ownership, putting people and children at risk. That is something you cannot disagree with, I'm sure Homeland Security and those in favor of BSL would have a field day with this breed. It's already on the list of BSL Breeds in other countries. I still see it has a tough guys dog and in the hands of Gangs, a very bad situation.

As I already stated I work with Hardcore Youth, those who have commited Homicide, Felony Theft, Gang Raping, all kinds of crimes. They would think having this breed would be cool, I educated them otherwise. That is the thing Fila Owners need to do!!!!! No one can tell by looking at this dog that he will react with great aggressiveness if he feels that someone or something in a menace to his owner or his territory, I prefer not to have one near me and I'm not for BSL.

[Deerie me]

This is a very interesting discussion. This is a breed I have zero knowledge of and have never met.

[Dogman#1]

Kian, yes the photographer lives in CA and I live in NY, your a hell of an investigator but for no reason...why would I lie about that? What you guys call aggression we call protection..those 2 lil words make a big difference. I am involved in other forums but saw what was going on here and had to step in to defend my breed but also ALL dog breeds in general against the attitude that was shown. Can these dogs be dangerous in the wrong hand? YES! but so can a broom stick but i doubt any of us would petition to ban broom sticks and instead wipe the floor on our knees would we?

I like your breed of choise, border collies now what if I told you that I was so completly against the work that border collies do and said "these dogs are terrifying the sheep and it is inhumane" what if I said that maybe they should breed all prey drive out of them to make them more "acceptable" in today's society? BTW Border Collies are pretty well known to "nip" at children's legs in an attempt to "herd' them...maybe we should take that trait out of them too, shall we? you wouldnt like that though would you? you would probably stand up for your breed because you know it can only be useful in its original form, right? well buddy, you are in luck that I do know enough about your breed not to crucify it at the first sight or article about wrong doing... leave that stuff for the uneducated morons who have their hearts set out on destroying dogs because they dont know any better.

BTW I prefer not to have them near you either... the term "Ojeriza" means a hatred of strangers so your in luck that they are not ever going to go out of their way to be next to you as well.

** MODERATOR EDIT, THIS IS A FAMILY FRIENDLY SITE, NO SWEAR WORDS ARE ALLOWED**

[Deerie me]

Dogman, they're actually Aussie Shepherds not border collies. Not that that makes much difference to the discussion.