When to neuter a giant breed puppy

[nezza]

I'm actually getting a little offended now. Why can't i be "emphatic" over something i feel strongly and passionate about? I wasn't being rude to anyone or judging anyone. I think i deserve some credit for all my experience in animal surgery. I'm not a child. I'm a well educated person. Just because i didn't go to school for animal medicine, doesn't mean i don't have a knowledge of it. I have learned A LOT "hands on" that most of you will never know. Please don't talk down to me. I have every right to feel strongly about something and i didn't post anything in an inappropriate way.

Thank you.

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

I am sorry that you feel offended. It has always been the practice of The Daily Puppy to keep the conversation on the lighter side of things and not become too "preachy". We wouldn't wish to make anyone feel badly for a choice that is really up to the individual. In cases where an animal is in harm's way, then people tend to become more emphatic, and for good reason.

As Moderators, it is up to us to set the tone of the Forum and maintain that tone. If this had been the first time that you had come off as "preachy", I probably would not have said anything. However, some people can find an emphatic tone to be off putting. Furthermore, we would have had this conversation in private if you had messaged me, but you apparently wished to have this conversation for all to see.

This part of the conversation is now over.

[Nileska]

Many rescue organizatiions neuter males of any age to help reduce overpopulation.I know we allwasys spayed/ neutered any we recieved before they were rehomed..

As a breeder my pet pups were sold with a spay/ neuter contract ( the buyer did not get the registration papers until I had a note from the vet ) Of course the show and breeding prospects did not have this requirement .Those I kept for obedience trials were not neutered before 9 months to assure more complete develment.

This is my own personal preference for my Siberians but I believe it would be even more beneficial for large breeds. Perhaps someone who has experience with the large breeds can give us some input ?

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

Richard, Tracy has already weighed in on this discussion as well. It's on Page 1 of this thread. With her medical background, as well as her experience, she feels it is better to wait until at least six months of age if not longer. She discussed some studies she has read in this regard.

Thank you for your input Richard. Your vast experience and information is always welcome. I too understand why Shelters and Rescues neuter before re-homing. It only makes sense.

We when had our Wolfies (Irish Wolfhounds for those not familiar with the term) and were having them shown, and were Breeding them, it was always recommended that the males be allowed to mature as much as possible prior to Neutering. I know of no ill affects for waiting until a year of age, except behavioural ones, and yet I am aware of detrimental affects to their developing structure if neutered too early. Giant Breeds grow so quickly especially compared to other breeds in that first year of life, that a few months makes a huge difference in their structural development.

Unless one is planning to Show and has a "show-worthy" dog, I also believe that spay and neuter are absolutely the way to go to prevent illnesses such as certain cancers. Obviously no one alters a Show Dog.

Having said all of that, this is merely a discussion. There is no "right or wrong" answer as that is not what is being discussed here. The OP sought the opinions of many to make an informed decision. It is not our function to dictate practices; simply to render our own personal opinions. Whatever the OP decides to do is entirely up to her.

[kurimusoda]

This thread certainly has fired up in the months since I originally posted! It probably would be right to post an update on Douglas. He got his "procedure" last Friday, at about 7.5 months old.

Deborah is right--I originally posted to try to garner a variety of opinions and perspectives on the matter.

We are a single-dog family, with a cat and a dwarf rabbit, so ever since he had his initial shots we have been taking Douglas to the nearby dog park to play. He has made many friends there with whom he loves to wrestle and spend time. In short, the dog park is an inseparable part of his life now.

Since around 6 months old, Douglas was starting to exhibit some tell-tale traits that he was going through pupuberty. The resource guarding got worse, in spite of positive counter-conditioning, and just this last month he's been constantly searching for spots where other dogs have marked--drooling when he smells them. He didn't start lifting his leg, but he was starting to mark by squatting. Furthermore, "come" (90% success rate before), was now only working about half the time at the park. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for us. Although on one hand, there are a handful of scientific studies that suggest waiting until full maturity to neuter giant breeds has positive impacts on their health, we could not bear to keep Douglas from the dog park and his friends for 2 whole years. It would most definitely have impacted his emotional/physical well being.

We made this decision for the safety of other dogs at the dog park, but most of all for Douglas' well being and happiness. It is what works for our family at this time.

P.S. His recovery has been going great! No vomiting or diarrhea, and he got his appetite back the night we brought him back. The surgical site has been healing nicely as well, I think he will be okay to go to the park this Friday or Saturday

EDIT: I forgot to thank everyone for their insight! Your opinions and perspectives along with advice from our veterinarian have been instrumental in our careful decision-making process.

[nezza]

WHEW! It WAS a heated discussion. Ultimately, Douglas' well being is what we ALL wanted. I'm glad to hear he is doing well!! Whatever our opinions may be on this site...we really just want what is best for each and every dog and owner.

Much love and hugs to you and your family.

[kurimusoda]

Thank you Nezza

I think I am due to post an overall update post about Douglas--with pictures. He has ballooned to over 100 lbs, and he isn't even 8 months yet! I have been assured that it is all muscle, not fat. He is a hefty hefty boy alright!

[nezza]

Thank you so much for the update!!!! So happy that he is healthy and growing

[Oliver & Henry's Mum]

I think you made the right decision for Douglas. Clearly it was time. I'm pleased to hear that he has tolerated the procedure well, and is making a nice recovery.

We would love to see some updated pictures. He is such a handsome boy and by the sounds of it, a very big one. You can include photos of the whole fur family if you wish.

Thanks for the update, and continued good health to Douglas and fun times for you.

[Ravenhill]

This is a fairly nice discussion of an important topic. I'm a 4 months/ 4 pounds person generally, but today ended up doing more research regarding giant breeds, who mature more slowly.

What I found is that many statistics have to be examined carefully.

For example, a study may find that altered pets have more cancer in old age, but a close look may also show that the same altered pets lived much (3-7 years) longer than the unaltered ones in that study, so the cause and effect of the alteration/cancer is truly unclear.

I have a Great Pyrenees/ Irish Wolfhound mix rescue who I adopted. He was neutered early, we think around 3 months, but the initial rescuers did not know his exact age and only suspected his breed. He's now 2 and almost through growing, doing very well, 30" at the withers. I went easy on his exercise as he was growing and did not push him (jogging, that kind of thing) to be sure his joints developed well. He only leg-lifts a little and is very amiable. Only odd thing is noise sensitivity....he hates a few radio theme songs; I don't think it's related. Knowing what I know now, if I had had him early enough and knew his true age, I might have waited until 7 months, simply because he has matured so slowly. this may be true of any breed that stands over 28". My other rescued dog is an Irish Wolfhound/Anatolian Shepherd mix (33") who is also amiable and mild mannered, but must have been fixed later, as he loves to mark things. He was 7 or 8 when I adopted him, and I have no idea when he was done.

In any case, when we go to the dog park, we are a good example of how neutering does not stunt growth.

I mainly just wanted to chime in about the studies and statistics....it is the same as with human studies: the devil is in the details.

[kian]

This topic has ran it's course and many of us differ on this. It's time lock it up!